Ryan E. Gildersleeve discussion

Allow Ryan — opening remarks or clarifications — with anything that could have been misunderstood. Maybe start with the one you had a reaction to —

I think the group did a great job representing the work — I wish there was a bit more critique. Hopefully this conversation can lead to critique. I applaud the group’s work so far — especially when she/he is the instructor of record — I appreciate the energy to engage in the work.

It is important that literacy is coming from new iteracy studies. :literacy == a sense making process. this is the simplicist way to put it. inherantly we can not make it a social practice — we cannot make it alone — we can only make sense of things in the cultural world. I do not come to know this bottle of water knowing what it is via osmosis — there is nothing i know about the bottle of water – i need to come to know the water and the water itself — born of water — having consumed water before — there is a whole history of the water bottle — if i had come from a family that came ffrom the dump — i woul dhave a different relationship of the bottle of water — I love the smart water — Tracy brought this to work one day — i was totally parched and a bit hung over — this is how I come to know it — the point is I have come to know it — it is not as if all of a sudden the bottle of water and I become friends… I hope this helps clarify the way in which literacy is thought of… that is all I wanted to preface it.

Q: How and what use the new lireacy model — how did you come to know the literacy model?
A: the college going literacy model — as far as the new literacy studies of thought that actually pivotal piece — Harvard Ed Review – New London Group coined the phrase new literacy studies. they had talked about it since the mid 90’s it brought a group of scholars together to talk about literacy in robust ways — they wrote this watershed piece. I came to know it by happenstance — there was a course being offered — being taught by this woman…. I wanted to know her – and I wanted her to know me – and I had talked to some friends and had them take the course with me — cultural theory and mediated learning activities – CHAT — is very much — is very tied to new literacy studies — I disagree — they are just complimentary and compatible — they draw from similar theorists — new lite studies focuses in on literacies – and CHAT focuses in on more — they are both — socially and culturally framed in the existence -=- it drives how we can participate in the world. She hired me to teach with her — for the next two years — these are the frameworks for MSLI. This is sort of how I was first introduced to it — Chris makes things happen for people — you link up with her you link up with the entire network — she is good and invol;ving people and exposing people — getting people to go deep in knowledge sets and development — she provided a lot of oportunities to meet people and to talk about work together. It was never an invitation to a cocktail party — it was about workshops and be my assistant and you will meet — Barbara Rogoth — from that I was getting deep into it — something about CHAT spoke to me — I really globbed onto it quick — I had working with McDonough — and I was trying to — i was thinking in different ways — and we had a big long talk – and I had written a paper for her – and she really encouraged me to go deep and take advantage of the relationship with Chris — we do not know why we like the ideas — this is what feels good so go with it — the more I thoght abut it — the deeper i went with the literature — it helped me frame and find what was missing — or what the literature did and miss — it missed something fundamental of the activity of college access — or the praxis of college access…

Q: Why use it?
Largely it allows us to move more fluidly in the domains — domains of admissions, financial aid, college choice, access studies and across the common barriers. It allows us to shift through the domains a bit easier. It brings everything together as it bares on on the dynamic activity of college learning – as opposed to the static activity. The dynamic field with micro/macro activities — this allows us to carry it though the system and the system can be dynamic and changing and cultural contigient – and historically contingent. the inquiry is something I did not do well… I think this can be pragmatic — I just have not immersed myself in the world — I am much more of a researcher… so um… in teh pragmatic sense of the basic tenet — if it is learned it is taught… and so… i think pragmatically — the College Going literacy model — if you frame it in teaching/learning schools the administrators will learn it… does that satisfy the question?

Phil: there is much more counter-story —

Q: What was your throught process in writing the counterstories? What were the tools in this C/S development?
A: This came a month a month after I filed the disserttation — I did not think of it as a counterstory — when reworking it as a book proposal — and through um… conversations with this one group — some of you have met them through other courses — it was shown to me — it was its own version of a counter-story — it is not a critical race counter-story — it is a counter-story because it disrupts the mega narrative about college going — naming my work as counter storytelling — it comes from critical race theory — I do not necessarily know what i do until I reflect with my peers — writing is a very social process — I need to be working and sharing… along the way… Tools: I make a point to read a lot of fiction — I read at least a novel a month — um — and — um — it has been really important to me to think fresh — and to look at different forms of representing truths – I think there is truth in fiction – there is a long literary truth in fiction… I was surprise that the group did not comment on the appendix in the piece — it talks about the process of writing — I really got stuck at one point — I was struggling how to share what I learned in writing – I could not do it in any single mode — in different times in the book – it looks much more typical ethnographic vignettes — it looks research reporting — or it draws from post modern representations — it is sometimes autoethnographic — I worked hard at not representing THE TRUTH — I represent the truth on how I know it — it is queered — I am in the book tremendously — you can see my actions transparently — it was more of a moral transformation and my own political stance — what inquiry is and how it should be…

Phil: I am now thinking about the appendix and how your stories about meeting with the students and one time Ryan took them to a Macroni Grill — and introducing them to something outside of their norm — and Ryan struggled with how to share it. Dr. Rendon did the same thing — and I think it would improve it if it was within the text.

Q: How would Ryan respond to Naguera’s sopcial capital…

Q: How do you interpret the missing “X”‘s to show they are not deficits.
The model shows how different actors participate in the lived drama of college access — or in performing college access. This model is less … so these tables are documenting where the different actors — which labor tasks — a set of tasks — where they provide assistance to the student. the families division of labor — where the family participates in — this is what they actually do… So, I find it important to not only document… let me back up — I think it is a very additative model — what assistance is being provided? assistance can be restraining and enabling… some of you had a teacher how you the five paragraph essay — these were restraining — unbreakable — you are suppose to have 5 — intro — 3 paragraphs and the intro and conclusion. Assistance is not always good — in discussing this… although the families – particularly parents were p
recluded from participating — the things they did participate in — the aspiration development and resources are two of the most key — you cannot do the others. Resources == time and money — parents created the time and space in the home — and provided the economic — the students are keenly aware of the families economic status. If you talk to poor folk — they never say — I feel as shitty as you think I am… both of my parents grew up very poor — but they never knew they were poor — us kids got to eat — clothes to wear — we never walked around naked — the students I was working with — they were aware of the economic equalities – and they contribute to the family income – when they were left out of the fields during spring break so they could study for the SAT — it syumbolically meant a LOT more — um… so, I also try to talk about — the X’s — they may not matter or happen in the same way — they would matter in different ways… if they are in an outreach program — they are aspiring to go — no kid is going to sacrifice their summer — they want to go — they have a conviction already to do something. But the parental asiration development was very important to aspire. If the parents didn’t give up then the children didn’t give up — if friends gave up — chances are their friend’s family had given up… something happened to the family itself — the school doesn’t teach my kid so they are not able to get into college… but then… taking each piece — taking them in context — i find it more important to look at the schooling and higher education to look at where there are not X’s and in families where there are X’s. the master narrative would argue that there are no X’s — the families are doing a TON of work… if you have never been to college — you are very limited to what you can share with your kids about going to college — the schooling and higher education — these are social institutions that society can change – readily — they have local autonomy with local context… teachers are not helping — teachers are not making any time/space for students to go work on college going. All K-12 admins do is testing. Counselors are not helping with coursework — this is an artifact with California… counselors are in charge of scheduling testing and discipline in California — they are not involved in getting students in a college prepatory path… schooling does not do anything to help make college a reality, the politics of education, it’s ideological work is about the dominant mainstream — I would theorize it is a technology of countrol — I can manage my classroom better if I tell them you are not a part of the system if you do not listen to me… In higher ed we do not do shit in higher ed — I separate outreach from higher ed… I do that intentionally… we do not do what we say we are going to do… there are some good reasons — it is structurally difficult for me to do something — there miught be X’s there for faculuty — it does not mean it is pervasive… there were 2 faculty members who helped with the MSLI — they helped. Does that address the question? Look at the context of the X’s…

Q: No where do you talk about social capital… my initial question is mute —
A: I think the idea of a college going pedagogy — is it is not a pedagogy bound to the institution — it is a social one — socially we need to be educating towards college practice… I am all about the civic engagement — i think that librarians should be helping… I do not understand as a society… I understand the social reproductionist — it is not okay with me… we need mechanics we need dishwashers — we need not make the decision for other people that this is what they will be… my dad is a mechanic — they read more than some of the faculity that are my colleagues — why can’t my dad be as smart or smarter than some of the people with Ph.D. It is a popular pedagogy — the idea of family and social capital is great if — to — to — if we are looking for families to participate in social reform… if we are looking to revolitionize how education is done — that is what it is… I would be more comfortable for parents to build social capital and to expand it… If he is arguing that parents to expand the social capital — it is putting it back on parents — and they are already doing so much — they already have the social capital and we need to help them activate it… Making Lapatas… if you want to talk in terms of capital…

Q: Why did the recommendations not speak to family?
time constraints…
working with families
== work clearly shows how families are instrumental and calls for institutions to reconceptualize the influence of families and recognize what the families are excellent at — and support those things — resource allocation and aspiration development… teachers saying I tell all of them to go to college — why does that matter? I do not like you so why would i listen? don’t tell me that is your college going pedagogy…
== a major thing is that — a major family thing — anyone working with students should understand family… Louis Mole… understand the context the family — culturally and socially organized — and shows you how to work with the family — you cannot reduce that to Latinos and Perry work at the Tyson plant — therefore they should have the parent teacher conversations in the morning… so…

Q: Why are you calling your work the fracturing opportunity
== in a way he is fracturing opportunity – we are taking the opportunity and fracturing it more
== wondering what the appropriate
== inspired by Lois Weiss and Michelle Fine — working method — fracturing current practices — different versions of the method deep work within a fracture — full fractures — different ways to disrupt hegemonic educational practices — that is where I am borrowing it from

Q: How do you represent the cyclical stuff?
This is where my writings failed — they were seniors, juniors and sophomores — the last two are graduating next week from HS. All the rest of them have been in college for the last two years — and one is graduating from CC on Saturday. Not only via… we have reconvened multiple times – there is active myspace activity — emailing/sms — some of them live near eachother and go to the institutions together… there is a ot of dude help me… don’t forget to take these subject tests — this is the fee waiver — a lot of seeking help — some of them had not been in the same physical space — for a length of time — a lot of communicating through me — once I got here – I made 4 different 1-=14 day trips to go and visit them again — there is a lot of that — the project has grown — now, the project is based in students doing inquiry in their own communities — some of them have been featured in local newspaper, parents — invilved in different parent activities — that is sort of the next phase for a little while now…

Q: He talked about the ways in which he got to know these students — some people might call it inappropriate in traditional research sense… Ryan was going into their homes — restaurants — the hotels as a space… have you encountered any challenges to the relationships with the students — I do not know if I would be comfortable working with the respondents in this way…
A: Folks who critique field work — i am just like whatever — you clearly have not done your homework what ethnography is or does… and then, um… there have been critiques in not including me in activity — this project — keep in mind — in context of the MSLI — a broader project with a lot more history… there is a lot of context with political context — I was a small player within the MSLI — this project was a big thing — so, um… some people involved in the MSLI that do not believe he shohuld work with students like these students… a lot of people come from disbelief — they cannot believe these relationships can exist… relationships — like a queer white guy and these young Chicanos can hap
pen… disbelieve what the relationships are — people think it is a fantastical event… that is fine if yu are blimnded by your own prejudice — it is fairly well documented and presented so… yeah… at UCLA — is much conservative as it is progressive… you can always find someone to fight the battle with you… they rocked they were totally amazing —

Q: The notion of reading and writing at the same time and the interplay — creating histories — creating oral histories — did you constantly see the histories of the people you were writing and interviewing them?
A: Yes and no. History is written for them — the master narrative — that has not changed although well — parts are being exaserbated in contemporary debate — created and recreated in the debate… part of making college real — making oneself — real — making them a historical actor — they are not ahistrocal — anytime one pauses for reflection — recognizing on perpetuates — and recognize the complexity — one is rewriting they history —

Q: Was it impactful as an ethnographer? Was it constantly in your lens? was it a secondary thought?
A: It was not conscious — it was not this will be documented — the framework is emmersed in the idea — it bleeds through the entire way of seeing… actually yeah… but history is REALLY important and recognizing that… we have to acknowledge that college access is TODAY… different social/political forces acting TODAY then 20 years ago… the migrations are different… they are bounded by those particular histories — we are acting in teh historical present… we are not acting in some historical quasi momentary event.

new methods of inquiry
allows folks to do things like — linguistic discourse analysis t look at college going —
critical ethnography consequential for college access
some of the lived realities of Mexican students
favourite finding from that part of the project is the idea of immigration as a tool — which i think opens up a whole other thing — it can be a dynamic influence in students’ lives — its influence changes over time and place –